I responded to a thread on an online group today and since I had managed to thread together two or three paragraph's I decided to make a blog post out of it. It seems that having grown up in the Institutional Church, many people feel inadequate to the job of passing their faith on to the next generation. Like so many other things, we feel we need the help of professionals. Anyhow...without any further aduiu...(as a certain school principal of my aquaintance liked frequently to say) here is my perspective on Christian education for children:
With regard to home-churched children, I think it is a good idea to make the Bible a “Subject” whether you are homeschooling or not. So many have given that job up to Sunday schools for so many generations that they no longer feel qualified for it themselves. Having come through SS as a child, the one thing I can say is that I heard the Bible stories and over the years gained a familiarity with those. I think that’s a good place to start with your babies…..keep reading the Bible stories with them and as they get older looking at scripture a little deeper….especially focusing on the teachings of Jesus. If parents did only this they would be doing better than 99% of institutional churches. But if you add to that, everyday demonstrations of the Christ life… kindness…caring….apologies for your own mistakes….and explaining the why’s and the why not’s in terms of Christ’s character and teaching, then WHAM! (I am taking some liberties in the spirit of Timothy’s “older women”.) Work out your faith visibly and audibly in front of your children…being candid and forthright about your weaknesses and failures and questions…. Make them feel free to ask Father their deepest and most difficult questions. Dig in to understand WITH them…rather than giving them the pat answer which is unsatisfying. Keep talking….keep praying with and for them. You are partnering with Father….and your children are His workmanship, not your own. He will ultimately and certainly be doing His part and when we pray for wisdom about our part….we must assume we have been given that wisdom.
Teach your children some of the great old hymns that have good theology (of course some of them have bad theology….so discriminate)
Have them memorize great passages of the Bible. There has been a tendency to discard the Bible with some branches of the un-church….in favor of following the spirit, but that’s crazy. Children will desperately need a good grounding in scripture to be able to think in the same terms as Christ. (I am working on memorizing the sermon on the mount. Three chapters well worth committing to memory.)
I have found youth groups (I went as a youth….and my kids went…and now some of my grandchildren do) to be a source of negative socialization and bad teaching. Also that generally, they divided the loyalties of the children often turning them against parents (who presumably didn’t understand their children better than a freshly minted “youth pastor.”) Dallas Willard (in The Divine Conspiracy) uses the term, “Mutual Condemnation Societies” which is an excellent term for this phenomenon.
Consequently, (rather than youth groups) I think we (*you*…haha…I’m at a later stage) should cultivate the friendship of families that seem to share your values and so you expose your children to children who might be on the same track as you. Practice hospitality and initiate joint social situations. When our kids were growing up they told us that they liked our friends better than their own. Exposing your children to other adults who demonstrate the Christ life(as opposed to just church attendance) is good for them….and for you. Two of our three children ended up marrying the children from families that we had deliberately cultivated as friends. Don’t worry whether they will be “over-sheltered”….that is impossible in our world where they are constantly bombarded with other perspectives whether good or bad.
The only other thing I can think of is that we need to constantly and consistently study and follow Christ’s teaching and example ourselves. We cannot pass on what we do not possess.
Chatting over green tea and brown rice, on the goodness of our Father and other lesser things.
Saturday, March 5, 2011
Monday, February 14, 2011
What made me love Leroy
I was first attracted by his beautiful smile made all the more appealing by his outgoing friendliness… not to mention his perfect teeth
Next his seeming un-self-conscious, fun loving, get things going nature with regard to social events of which he was more likely than not, the initiator.
It was wonderful to hear his singing voice and virtuosity in playing guitar and then…to be drawn into participation with him in this was amazing.
I loved that he had a vision for his life and a plan for it’s unfolding. This gave me the confidence to link my future to his.
Leroy will most certainly do what he believes to be right.
Had I not the sense that he intended to follow Jesus wherever He led….Had I not the sense that he loved me and put me second….those would have been the deal breakers.
They were not….
Sunday, December 26, 2010
Tolstoy
I'm still reading Tolstoys "The Kingdom of God is Within You," and finding that I really identify with his political views as much as with his take on the Christian life. I've had people say to me, "You mean you think Tolstoy was a Christian?" Ha...a lot of people maybe think that because he was excommunicated from the Russian Orthodox Church he wasn't a follower of Christ. I heard someone say that he invented his own religion. In a nutshell...his "religion" consisted of rejecting institutional creeds and following the teaching of Christ. The five commands of Christ which we see in His sermon on the mount (Matthew chapter 5) are:
1. NO KILLING
2. NO ADULTERY
3. NO OATHS
4. NO RESISTANCE OF EVIL
5. LOVE
There is much talk about legalism vs. "hyper-grace" these days. Legalism is the idea that we can be righteous by simply following the letter of the law (as concerns say...the ten commandments.) "Hyper-grace" (perhaps I made up that term....) is the concept that since we are not able to save ourselves by our works...there is nothing we can do...it is all grace. This is the concept that Paul was speaking to when he said, (Romans 6:1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
If it was all about the Bar Code style of Christianity...then the legalists and the gracies might have a reason to slug it out to find out who's out and who's in.... But since it is not about getting a ticket to heaven but rather becoming a person who can breath the air of heaven; who will thrive in that atmosphere; who has become fit for service; Jesus is telling us that we have got to go deeper than the letter of the law. Not only should we not kill...we must also give up our murderous hatred. Not only should we not commit adultry...we must abandon lust. We shouldn't have to swear an oath to be believed...we must simply always tell the truth. We must not resist evil men with violence, but rather be mistreated than mistreat. Not only should we love our friends...but our enemies too. It's all about the kind of person we are becoming not about whether we could prove our innocence in a court of law.
On the other side. For those who claim that they can do as they wish because they are relying on grace...one may ask...what are they becoming. Are we really relying on Christ if we are not even attempting to live His life?
I found an interesting footnote in my Bible to Habakkuk 1:4 "There is a curious passage in the Talmud (the body of Jewish civil and religious law) which says that Moses gave six hundred injunctions to the Israelites. As these commands might prove too numerous to commit to memory, David brought them down to eleven in Psalm 15. Isaiah reduced these eleven to six in Isaiah 33:15. Micah (6:8) further reduced them to three; and Isaiah (56:1) once more brought them down to two. These two Amos (5:4) reduced to one. However, lest it might be supposed from this that God could be found only in the fulfillment of the law, Habakkuk (2:4 KJV)said, 'The just shall live by his faith.'"
Tolstoy couldn't stand the brand of Christianity that he saw. The religious dogma; the smoke and icons and holy artifacts and other nonsense of the Orthodox church. Armies marching to war (in direct opposition to Christ's teaching on non-resistance) carrying the images of the saints (idolatry); He had no choice to get himself kicked out. And I have been wondering this week (reading another book from that period of Russian history) what would have happened in Russia if the Russian church had paid more attention to Tolstoy and listened to his views on the teaching of Christ,rather than excommunicating him; whether Russia could have had a peaceful transition rather than a bloody revolution led by violent athiestic forces.
He wanted the children to be taught to actually follow Christ's teaching, not just learn a faulty catechism by rote. But the institutional church, is an earthly institution after all, and the function of an institution is self-preservation and expansion. Keep things simple for the simple masses and keep them believing that the elite ecclesiastic hiearchy knows best.
"We may think God wants actions of a certain kind, but God wants people of a certain sort"-C.S. Lewis
Sunday, December 5, 2010
Eternal Kind of Life
Eternal Kind of Life
I had always thought that having eternal life meant unending life. Never really thinking that the word eternal is descriptive of not of time, but of timelessness. In order to be eternal it would have to have no beginning as well as no end.
It was while reading “The Divine Conspiracy” by Dallas Willard that I was first introduced to the concept that “Eternal life” refers to a KIND of life. (p.53)
In today’s terminology, I think it might be expressed “sustainable life”…the kind of life that could safely be allowed to continue “forever”.
When Adam and Eve chose to disobey God…(Genesis 3) God had told them that they would die as a consequence….and they did, but in the mean while, God had to remove them from the idyllic Eden (Gen 3:22) “lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” My Bible has a footnote there which says, “This sentence is left unfinished, as if to hasten to avert the tragedy suggested of men living on forever in their now fallen state.”
Now leaving Genesis and going to Jesus’ beautiful prayer for us which is in John 17, (Please read the whole lovely chapter...preferably in the Amplified Bible...haha) we see Jesus giving the definition of eternal life which Dallas Willard had indicated in his book. In v.3 (He is talking to His Father) Jesus says, “And this is eternal life: [it means] to know (to perceive, recognize, become acquainted with, and understand) You, the only true and real God, and [likewise] to know Him, Jesus [as the] Christ (the Anointed One, the Messiah), whom You have sent.”
I feel like I could go in a few different directions from this point but I hate to have too long of a post….and I want to slow down and write thoughtfully…so for this time I will just leave it at this. “Eternal life” is not about “making it” to heaven….it it about becoming, through the work of Christ and the ongoing workings of the Holy Spirit, the kind of person whom Father God can safely allow to continue in a sustainable (perfect) ongoing life. (To be continued)
I had always thought that having eternal life meant unending life. Never really thinking that the word eternal is descriptive of not of time, but of timelessness. In order to be eternal it would have to have no beginning as well as no end.
It was while reading “The Divine Conspiracy” by Dallas Willard that I was first introduced to the concept that “Eternal life” refers to a KIND of life. (p.53)
In today’s terminology, I think it might be expressed “sustainable life”…the kind of life that could safely be allowed to continue “forever”.
When Adam and Eve chose to disobey God…(Genesis 3) God had told them that they would die as a consequence….and they did, but in the mean while, God had to remove them from the idyllic Eden (Gen 3:22) “lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” My Bible has a footnote there which says, “This sentence is left unfinished, as if to hasten to avert the tragedy suggested of men living on forever in their now fallen state.”
Now leaving Genesis and going to Jesus’ beautiful prayer for us which is in John 17, (Please read the whole lovely chapter...preferably in the Amplified Bible...haha) we see Jesus giving the definition of eternal life which Dallas Willard had indicated in his book. In v.3 (He is talking to His Father) Jesus says, “And this is eternal life: [it means] to know (to perceive, recognize, become acquainted with, and understand) You, the only true and real God, and [likewise] to know Him, Jesus [as the] Christ (the Anointed One, the Messiah), whom You have sent.”
I feel like I could go in a few different directions from this point but I hate to have too long of a post….and I want to slow down and write thoughtfully…so for this time I will just leave it at this. “Eternal life” is not about “making it” to heaven….it it about becoming, through the work of Christ and the ongoing workings of the Holy Spirit, the kind of person whom Father God can safely allow to continue in a sustainable (perfect) ongoing life. (To be continued)
Saturday, November 13, 2010
Three signals
When I read my Bible, I love to follow the cross references, read all the notes. Both the printed footnotes…and the notes I have left myself.
As it happened I was reading in John today and came again, to the story of Lazarus. I thought I had blogged on the idea of the three signals some time ago, so I checked and found this one from 3 ½ years ago.
http://mamalenasporch.blogspot.com/2007/06/comments-on-john-11.html
I was a little surprised that I had mentioned the idea of the three signals but then only wrote about the first one. (sidetracked with other ideas…haha…to no-one’s surprise)
So I want to note in this post the other two signals as I see them. This is of interest to me because, Jesus always said things like, “My hour has not yet come,” and “I can do only what I see my Father doing…” He always seemed to know what His Father was doing and what His own next step must be. Since Jesus tells us that we are to do His works in the same way as He has done Father’s works….then the process of guidance must be worth investigating to try to see how Jesus received guidance. So…to recap….
The first signal I noticed, which seemed to indicate to Jesus that “His hour” was at hand was the signal of Lazarus. (John 11:4) When Jesus received the news of Lazarus’ illness He said, “This sickness is not to end in death; but (on the contrary) it is to honor God and to promote His glory.” Then He hesitated going to him for a couple of days….on purpose…. Somehow, this gave me the impression that Jesus was receiving a signal…direct guidance…. I will not get sidetracked again although the whole story gets my mind stirring with thoughts which I’ve already mentioned in my other post on John 11. It is enough to note that after the miracle of Lazarus, both Jesus and Lazarus had been catapulted to rock star status, so much so that “From that day on they took counsel and plotted together how they might put Him to death.” 11:53
The second signal (as I see it) is given in Chapter 12. Jesus is attending a dinner at the same home; that of Mary and Martha and their brother Lazarus. The story of Lazarus’ resurrection had really blazed abroad…and so many people had showed up to see both of them, that the elite began to think of ways of killing Lazarus too. At the dinner, Mary shocks the guests by entered the room and pouring $20,000 worth of ointment on Jesus feet. (I’m figuring that roughly…because the Bible states that it was worth a years wages for an ordinary working man… 52 weeks x 40 hours x $10 per hour… If he was talking about a plumber…then the ointment was worth A LOT more…haha… Anyhow…it doesn’t matter what the value….or what anyone else (Judas) thought of the "waste." Jesus seemed to receive it as a signal…a sign…a preparation for His death and burial. And we are told that the very next day was Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem which was the first link in the chain of events leading to Golgotha.
The third signal was puzzling to me at first. But so often, when I find something puzzling…there is a beautiful nugget to be found….and I thought it puzzling when in 12:21-24, we are told that some Greeks had come to worship at the feast and had asked to see Jesus. When Philip and Andrew went to tell Jesus about them, He didn’t set up a meeting for later that evening or for any time for that matter…His response was, “The time has come for the Son of Man to be glorified and exalted…” And He goes on with a beautiful sermon, punctuated by a voice from heaven (which was heard by the bystanders) intended, it seems, to prepare Himself and them for His imminent death. He closes the sermon with the statement, “Whatever I speak, I am saying (exactly) what My Father has told Me to say and in accordance with His instruction.” (So we know that what He has told them… we really need to read again …with comprehension.) But…If only we could realize that kind of guidance…of “walking in the Spirit.”
So...why that signal? How was the request of those Greek fellows to see Jesus a signal to Him?
There are two statements that, I believe give us insight into why that might be a signal. Both refer to the expansion and growth of the kingdom of God. In v.24 He states, “Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit.”
And then in verse 32 He says, “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”
Jesus had previously instructed the disciples to preach only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel…but now, I think the coming of the Greeks was a signal that the timing was right for the message of Christ to begin it’s outward spread to the whole world. That the time for the final act had come…for the first domino to fall… And those attending the feast from near and far....would become incidental witnesses to the death and resurrection of Christ and would begin to bring His message to the rest of the world....
As it happened I was reading in John today and came again, to the story of Lazarus. I thought I had blogged on the idea of the three signals some time ago, so I checked and found this one from 3 ½ years ago.
http://mamalenasporch.blogspot.com/2007/06/comments-on-john-11.html
I was a little surprised that I had mentioned the idea of the three signals but then only wrote about the first one. (sidetracked with other ideas…haha…to no-one’s surprise)
So I want to note in this post the other two signals as I see them. This is of interest to me because, Jesus always said things like, “My hour has not yet come,” and “I can do only what I see my Father doing…” He always seemed to know what His Father was doing and what His own next step must be. Since Jesus tells us that we are to do His works in the same way as He has done Father’s works….then the process of guidance must be worth investigating to try to see how Jesus received guidance. So…to recap….
The first signal I noticed, which seemed to indicate to Jesus that “His hour” was at hand was the signal of Lazarus. (John 11:4) When Jesus received the news of Lazarus’ illness He said, “This sickness is not to end in death; but (on the contrary) it is to honor God and to promote His glory.” Then He hesitated going to him for a couple of days….on purpose…. Somehow, this gave me the impression that Jesus was receiving a signal…direct guidance…. I will not get sidetracked again although the whole story gets my mind stirring with thoughts which I’ve already mentioned in my other post on John 11. It is enough to note that after the miracle of Lazarus, both Jesus and Lazarus had been catapulted to rock star status, so much so that “From that day on they took counsel and plotted together how they might put Him to death.” 11:53
The second signal (as I see it) is given in Chapter 12. Jesus is attending a dinner at the same home; that of Mary and Martha and their brother Lazarus. The story of Lazarus’ resurrection had really blazed abroad…and so many people had showed up to see both of them, that the elite began to think of ways of killing Lazarus too. At the dinner, Mary shocks the guests by entered the room and pouring $20,000 worth of ointment on Jesus feet. (I’m figuring that roughly…because the Bible states that it was worth a years wages for an ordinary working man… 52 weeks x 40 hours x $10 per hour… If he was talking about a plumber…then the ointment was worth A LOT more…haha… Anyhow…it doesn’t matter what the value….or what anyone else (Judas) thought of the "waste." Jesus seemed to receive it as a signal…a sign…a preparation for His death and burial. And we are told that the very next day was Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem which was the first link in the chain of events leading to Golgotha.
The third signal was puzzling to me at first. But so often, when I find something puzzling…there is a beautiful nugget to be found….and I thought it puzzling when in 12:21-24, we are told that some Greeks had come to worship at the feast and had asked to see Jesus. When Philip and Andrew went to tell Jesus about them, He didn’t set up a meeting for later that evening or for any time for that matter…His response was, “The time has come for the Son of Man to be glorified and exalted…” And He goes on with a beautiful sermon, punctuated by a voice from heaven (which was heard by the bystanders) intended, it seems, to prepare Himself and them for His imminent death. He closes the sermon with the statement, “Whatever I speak, I am saying (exactly) what My Father has told Me to say and in accordance with His instruction.” (So we know that what He has told them… we really need to read again …with comprehension.) But…If only we could realize that kind of guidance…of “walking in the Spirit.”
So...why that signal? How was the request of those Greek fellows to see Jesus a signal to Him?
There are two statements that, I believe give us insight into why that might be a signal. Both refer to the expansion and growth of the kingdom of God. In v.24 He states, “Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit.”
And then in verse 32 He says, “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”
Jesus had previously instructed the disciples to preach only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel…but now, I think the coming of the Greeks was a signal that the timing was right for the message of Christ to begin it’s outward spread to the whole world. That the time for the final act had come…for the first domino to fall… And those attending the feast from near and far....would become incidental witnesses to the death and resurrection of Christ and would begin to bring His message to the rest of the world....
Thursday, October 21, 2010
Fruit
Fruitfulness is born of Relationship...
Power can only produce works….
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Your name and driven out demons in your Name and done many mighty works in Your name? 23 And then I will say to them openly (publicly), I never knew you; depart from Me, you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands.]
Isaiah 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Relationship...of the vine and branches variety…is the only way to be fruitful…
Mighty works (even those done in Jesus’ name) can be a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal…in the absence of relationship …
Power can only produce works….
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Your name and driven out demons in your Name and done many mighty works in Your name? 23 And then I will say to them openly (publicly), I never knew you; depart from Me, you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands.]
Isaiah 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Relationship...of the vine and branches variety…is the only way to be fruitful…
Mighty works (even those done in Jesus’ name) can be a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal…in the absence of relationship …
Monday, July 12, 2010
Love
"I feel loved." I've been noticing lately that people DO actually say that...and I have been wondering what they mean when they say it. A young Hollywood star says it. A woman coming out of a loveless marriage and then marrying again. HA... mostly people who are embarking on their second or third marriage it seems. But not always...
I think it is easier for a younger person (or at least one who feels young) to "feel" loved because, the physical attractiveness of youth seems a strong enough to pass for love. Lately, the term "HOT" has replaced "beautiful" or "lovely" as a compliment. I think that is an indication of what is of value and what makes for love-worthiness. But as the old saying goes, "when you're hot, you're hot, and when you're not, you're not." As we age, we shouldn't have to depend upon being "hot" to be love-worthy. I don't pine for that kind of love...but I do pine for genuine love. I don't want to be convinced that I am loved, I simply want to BE loved. I find it difficult to express, even to myself what it is, exactly, that I crave. I don't want to be convinced by deeds or words that I am loved. I want to actually BE loved and have words or deeds flow out of that. I think that if we actually DO love, then a convincing performance won't be necessary.
So today I was reading in Ephesians and I came across the definition of love that expressed for me EXACTLY what I desire...and therefore...according to the Golden Rule...exactly how I need to BE. OK, I know that sounds like a performance...and I said performance shouldn't be necessary....but it is...of course...haha. It should just become less neccessary as time goes on and habit becomes nature...becomes genuine...
Anyhow, this is what I read. It is from the Amplified Bible and so now you know one more reason why I just love that translation. It's the [amplified] part that is helpful in expressing exactly what love should look like when we get it right.
...WALK IN LOVE...
[esteeming and delighting in one another]
Ephesians 5:2 (AMP)
I don't see how this can be possible as a one way stream in the long term...even though it might have to begin as one. I think it will have to become a "one another" thing or it won't be possible and we'll just have to settle for an inferior outcome. Maybe the thing that is helpful for me here is to have it so perfectly expressed what the target is...
Esteeming...delighting...one anothering...
PS....I love this poem by Walt Whitman...so I'm just adding it on. It speaks to me of how I wish....and imagined things might have been at this stage of life....
Not from successful love alone,
Nor wealth, nor honor'd middle age, nor victories of politics or war;
But as life wanes, and all the turbulent passions calm,
As gorgeous, vapory, silent hues cover the evening sky,
As softness, fulness, rest, suffuse the frame, like freshier, balmier air,
As the days take on a mellower light, and the apple at last hangs really finish'd and indolent-ripe on the tree,
Then for the teeming quietest, happiest days of all!
The brooding and blissful halcyon days!
Leaves of Grass, Walt Whitman, 1891
I think it is easier for a younger person (or at least one who feels young) to "feel" loved because, the physical attractiveness of youth seems a strong enough to pass for love. Lately, the term "HOT" has replaced "beautiful" or "lovely" as a compliment. I think that is an indication of what is of value and what makes for love-worthiness. But as the old saying goes, "when you're hot, you're hot, and when you're not, you're not." As we age, we shouldn't have to depend upon being "hot" to be love-worthy. I don't pine for that kind of love...but I do pine for genuine love. I don't want to be convinced that I am loved, I simply want to BE loved. I find it difficult to express, even to myself what it is, exactly, that I crave. I don't want to be convinced by deeds or words that I am loved. I want to actually BE loved and have words or deeds flow out of that. I think that if we actually DO love, then a convincing performance won't be necessary.
So today I was reading in Ephesians and I came across the definition of love that expressed for me EXACTLY what I desire...and therefore...according to the Golden Rule...exactly how I need to BE. OK, I know that sounds like a performance...and I said performance shouldn't be necessary....but it is...of course...haha. It should just become less neccessary as time goes on and habit becomes nature...becomes genuine...
Anyhow, this is what I read. It is from the Amplified Bible and so now you know one more reason why I just love that translation. It's the [amplified] part that is helpful in expressing exactly what love should look like when we get it right.
...WALK IN LOVE...
[esteeming and delighting in one another]
Ephesians 5:2 (AMP)
I don't see how this can be possible as a one way stream in the long term...even though it might have to begin as one. I think it will have to become a "one another" thing or it won't be possible and we'll just have to settle for an inferior outcome. Maybe the thing that is helpful for me here is to have it so perfectly expressed what the target is...
Esteeming...delighting...one anothering...
PS....I love this poem by Walt Whitman...so I'm just adding it on. It speaks to me of how I wish....and imagined things might have been at this stage of life....
Not from successful love alone,
Nor wealth, nor honor'd middle age, nor victories of politics or war;
But as life wanes, and all the turbulent passions calm,
As gorgeous, vapory, silent hues cover the evening sky,
As softness, fulness, rest, suffuse the frame, like freshier, balmier air,
As the days take on a mellower light, and the apple at last hangs really finish'd and indolent-ripe on the tree,
Then for the teeming quietest, happiest days of all!
The brooding and blissful halcyon days!
Leaves of Grass, Walt Whitman, 1891
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